A Steampunk Community
Roleplay, & how it once was...
Note: This blog is entirely OCC. Parenthesis won't be needed.
I'll start off by saying directly that I'm fully aware that not everyone will agree with what I have to say in this blog, and that is perfectly fine. No harm, no foul. I'll also say that I'm going through the trouble of writing it because I know for a fact that many do. So, to address both sides of that equation, everyone should bear in mind that I'm just one man stating an opinion that everyone is free to agree with, disagree with, ignore, or debate at their leisure. If you choose to debate, please do so respectfully, and do not muddy up this blog with childish name calling and sniping.
One thing I think goes without saying is that you can spot an RP Sim by looking for rules about how RPs are conducted. I tend to look for such rules so I know which Sims to avoid. It was always a major plus in my mind that in New Babbage role playing was 100% optional, a pendulum that swung both ways. If one wanted to opt out, one simply didn't involve themselves, or at most simple state that they weren't going to be in whatever RP was right in front of them. Likewise, one could roam the streets with a few friends imagining whatever story unfolding around them that they liked, because they knew that no one was forced to take part. It was a rare and beautiful thing to see. Someone once said something in a blog or discussion comment (I honestly can't remember which) that I thought perfectly encapsulated free form role playing. I paraphrase, "Just because you say something in your RP, don't expect me to acknowledge it in mine." Unfortunately, we've recently turned a corner away from that, and it seems that role playing in New Babbage will never be the same.
"RP is 100% optional here, but it is not 100% ignorable by the people who have made this city their home. The stories that are told in our streets have an inevitable impact on the character of the city, which is first and foremost a steampunk city. Characters based in magic and fantasy are strongly advised to consult with the mayor before settling in."
And there we have it. A minor step involving three sentences, and free form RP has irrevocably been obliterated. Oh, do not get me wrong here. You can still opt in or out at will. You can still decide whether or not you wish to tell a story at all. However, now you have no choice but to accept that the entire City may forcibly opt in, changing the way you tell your story. From now on, if you set your story in New Babbage, you must consider everything that has gone before, and everything that might occur afterward. You must consider how someone who isn't even involved in your RP might feel it affects their character. You might think this is too far, but let's examine things, shall we?
"RP is 100% optional here, but it is not 100% ignorable by the people who have made this city their home."
Now, I must admit that I was unaware of many changes to the latest release of the SL viewer. Apparently now there is no "mute" option. You simply must read someone else's text.
Also, land owners are now unable to IM someone and say something along the lines of, "I heard from a customer that you were role playing in my shop. I don't mind roleplay, but you shouldn't do it in a place of business without permission. I'm afraid if it happens again I'll need to ban you."
Lastly, apparently non-land owners can not contact someone if an obnoxious role play is keeping them from accessing some part of the city.
There are many arguments against the (admittedly sarcastic) statements I just made, but they all boil down to, "Nothing should ever bother me and if it does, I shouldn't have to be inconvenienced in the slightest way to have it removed from my private little world." It's the view that everything must cater any individual's whims. However, this is a city with many residents from all parts of the world, with many differing opinions. As such, my view is that, yes, we should need to communicate, take action, or otherwise have to lift a finger when something is amiss. Further more, this means that, yes, not everyone is going to like every single thing that happens in New Babbage. As proof, I would offer that I haven't liked every single thing that's happened in New Babbage, and yet the sun still rises, the stars still shine, and, most importantly, I can still have my coffee with half & half, a teaspoon and a half of sugar, & a splash of hazelnut extract.
As an aside, I foresee that first sentence being the source of far more headaches for the Clockwinder than he imagines. Which is unfortunate, because I would bet that it was written to avoid headaches.
"YOU wrote in the covenant that I CAN'T IGNORE IT!!!" It's going to happen. Mark my words.
"The stories that are told in our streets have an inevitable impact on the character of the city, which is first and foremost a steampunk city."
For those of you who would argue that my comments on the first sentence were off base, I counter with the second sentence! HAVE AT THEE!!!
Yes, it's first and foremost a steampunk city. That is now, and always has been, the allure. A beautiful steampunk setting with the option for free form role play sets the imagination ablaze!
And that sentence quenches the flames.
Remember what I said about the rare and beautiful thing we had going. Well, forget it. It's gone now. The City declared eminent domain and mowed down all the pretty flowers so it could build the Bureau of Roleplay Micro-Management. Too far? Tough. It's in the covenant now, and that means that the Mayor MUST address role play issues when they arise. Even if he looks into it and declares that, in fact, there is, or at least shouldn't be, cause for concern, the issue I'm talking about is that I'm willing to bet he'll either [A] be looking into these issues more and more, or [B] find that there is a lot less roleplay going on.
"But YOU said their story has an INEVITABLE IMPACT on MY character!!!" I could be wrong, and let's all pray in unison to the respective deity of our choice that I am.
"Characters based in magic and fantasy are strongly advised to consult with the mayor before settling in."
We don't serve your kind here. Unless we never have to look at you. Or hear you. Or read anything you've ever written.
But, as we're a wonderfully accepting community, we offer your the option of changing who you are. No? OK, that's fine. We'll just bash everything you post on the Ning and IM you incessantly about why you don't fit in and how it puts a crimp in our day.
That, in my opinion, is exactly where that last sentence is taking us. Believe me, you will never, NEVER, convince me that this was what Tenk intended when he wrote it. I'd like to think I know him better than that. But sometimes we just don't realize exactly what is going to pour out of the flood gate we just opened. That sentence will be twisted, paraphrased, and used to slap anyone and anything that doesn't fit any random resident's personal standards. How do I know? Because people tend to be that way, especially in large groups. People will use it to protest the action, and even the existence, of others. And, again, mark my words, they are going to be extremely bull headed about it.
I also know this because I've already seen it happen. I won't drag anyone into this blog, so I'll use myself as an example. For a Town Hall, Tenk asked us to send him a note card with our views and opinions. He posted part of mine in chat for those gathered, as I was not able to attend. Part of what he posted said, "I think something that may help for all citizens, Engineers and Steampunk alike, would be to add the an "Out of Character" role to the groups, and assign everyone to the role. That way, if we have another even, people have the option of putting the tag on if it's a heavy RP night. Of course, some will say, "Why should I have to wear a tag when blah de blah de fo de fo???" To that I say, you can't please everyone."
What followed was the precise eruption of "Why should I have to?!?" that I predicted. Everyone involved in this eruption completely ignored that they would not be forced to do anything even if this was implemented. As far as they were concerned, it all boiled down to, "If I wouldn't want to, NO ONE should have the option!"
To me, it was shameful and disappointing that the very idea of giving someone the choice whether to do something or not would be so appalling to so many. Every time someone said that they liked the idea, three or four people would type, "NO TAGS!", or threatened to move away if it was implemented. It doesn't matter to me that it wasn't put into effect. My groups have always had this tag available. (If you haven't noticed, I'm big on letting people have choices.) It was the fact that the eruption was so violent that others went so far as to say that they weren't going to say anything because they didn't want to get yelled at. It was the first time since the elections that I had doubts about our community, and I'll be honest, those doubts have intensified in the last few months.
More and more we're talking about role play. Specifically, what we don't like to see in role play. We discuss whether or not magic should be allowed, what limits we should put on magic, and even how an individuals character is designed. Every time the discussion starts with the best of intentions. Take Mr. Underby's discussion. You'll never convince me that he's on the anti-magic side of the debate. I would be willing to bet he wanted to discuss the limitations of magic as it applies to good story telling and character development. I could be wrong, but I doubt I'm that far off.
However, soon the discussion started sliding away from that. I wasn't going to weigh in, but eventually added my two cents, pretty much stating that good story telling outweighed what genre a particular plot device fell into. The reason being was, well intentioned as it was, I felt the discussion would start us on the road to, well, this. What's that saying about a road paved with good intentions?
I'm going to shut up for now. Feel free to add your two cents here. However, let me reiterate something. Debate, discuss, and even trash the statements I've made in this blog all you want. I've got a thick skin. However, do not muddy up this blog by bashing each other. If you want to name call and bicker, get a room.
I'll start off by saying directly that I'm fully aware that not everyone will agree with what I have to say in this blog, and that is perfectly fine. No harm, no foul. I'll also say that I'm going through the trouble of writing it because I know for a fact that many do. So, to address both sides of that equation, everyone should bear in mind that I'm just one man stating an opinion that everyone is free to agree with, disagree with, ignore, or debate at their leisure. If you choose to debate, please do so respectfully, and do not muddy up this blog with childish name calling and sniping.
One thing I think goes without saying is that you can spot an RP Sim by looking for rules about how RPs are conducted. I tend to look for such rules so I know which Sims to avoid. It was always a major plus in my mind that in New Babbage role playing was 100% optional, a pendulum that swung both ways. If one wanted to opt out, one simply didn't involve themselves, or at most simple state that they weren't going to be in whatever RP was right in front of them. Likewise, one could roam the streets with a few friends imagining whatever story unfolding around them that they liked, because they knew that no one was forced to take part. It was a rare and beautiful thing to see. Someone once said something in a blog or discussion comment (I honestly can't remember which) that I thought perfectly encapsulated free form role playing. I paraphrase, "Just because you say something in your RP, don't expect me to acknowledge it in mine." Unfortunately, we've recently turned a corner away from that, and it seems that role playing in New Babbage will never be the same.
"RP is 100% optional here, but it is not 100% ignorable by the people who have made this city their home. The stories that are told in our streets have an inevitable impact on the character of the city, which is first and foremost a steampunk city. Characters based in magic and fantasy are strongly advised to consult with the mayor before settling in."
And there we have it. A minor step involving three sentences, and free form RP has irrevocably been obliterated. Oh, do not get me wrong here. You can still opt in or out at will. You can still decide whether or not you wish to tell a story at all. However, now you have no choice but to accept that the entire City may forcibly opt in, changing the way you tell your story. From now on, if you set your story in New Babbage, you must consider everything that has gone before, and everything that might occur afterward. You must consider how someone who isn't even involved in your RP might feel it affects their character. You might think this is too far, but let's examine things, shall we?
"RP is 100% optional here, but it is not 100% ignorable by the people who have made this city their home."
Now, I must admit that I was unaware of many changes to the latest release of the SL viewer. Apparently now there is no "mute" option. You simply must read someone else's text.
Also, land owners are now unable to IM someone and say something along the lines of, "I heard from a customer that you were role playing in my shop. I don't mind roleplay, but you shouldn't do it in a place of business without permission. I'm afraid if it happens again I'll need to ban you."
Lastly, apparently non-land owners can not contact someone if an obnoxious role play is keeping them from accessing some part of the city.
There are many arguments against the (admittedly sarcastic) statements I just made, but they all boil down to, "Nothing should ever bother me and if it does, I shouldn't have to be inconvenienced in the slightest way to have it removed from my private little world." It's the view that everything must cater any individual's whims. However, this is a city with many residents from all parts of the world, with many differing opinions. As such, my view is that, yes, we should need to communicate, take action, or otherwise have to lift a finger when something is amiss. Further more, this means that, yes, not everyone is going to like every single thing that happens in New Babbage. As proof, I would offer that I haven't liked every single thing that's happened in New Babbage, and yet the sun still rises, the stars still shine, and, most importantly, I can still have my coffee with half & half, a teaspoon and a half of sugar, & a splash of hazelnut extract.
As an aside, I foresee that first sentence being the source of far more headaches for the Clockwinder than he imagines. Which is unfortunate, because I would bet that it was written to avoid headaches.
"YOU wrote in the covenant that I CAN'T IGNORE IT!!!" It's going to happen. Mark my words.
"The stories that are told in our streets have an inevitable impact on the character of the city, which is first and foremost a steampunk city."
For those of you who would argue that my comments on the first sentence were off base, I counter with the second sentence! HAVE AT THEE!!!
Yes, it's first and foremost a steampunk city. That is now, and always has been, the allure. A beautiful steampunk setting with the option for free form role play sets the imagination ablaze!
And that sentence quenches the flames.
Remember what I said about the rare and beautiful thing we had going. Well, forget it. It's gone now. The City declared eminent domain and mowed down all the pretty flowers so it could build the Bureau of Roleplay Micro-Management. Too far? Tough. It's in the covenant now, and that means that the Mayor MUST address role play issues when they arise. Even if he looks into it and declares that, in fact, there is, or at least shouldn't be, cause for concern, the issue I'm talking about is that I'm willing to bet he'll either [A] be looking into these issues more and more, or [B] find that there is a lot less roleplay going on.
"But YOU said their story has an INEVITABLE IMPACT on MY character!!!" I could be wrong, and let's all pray in unison to the respective deity of our choice that I am.
"Characters based in magic and fantasy are strongly advised to consult with the mayor before settling in."
We don't serve your kind here. Unless we never have to look at you. Or hear you. Or read anything you've ever written.
But, as we're a wonderfully accepting community, we offer your the option of changing who you are. No? OK, that's fine. We'll just bash everything you post on the Ning and IM you incessantly about why you don't fit in and how it puts a crimp in our day.
That, in my opinion, is exactly where that last sentence is taking us. Believe me, you will never, NEVER, convince me that this was what Tenk intended when he wrote it. I'd like to think I know him better than that. But sometimes we just don't realize exactly what is going to pour out of the flood gate we just opened. That sentence will be twisted, paraphrased, and used to slap anyone and anything that doesn't fit any random resident's personal standards. How do I know? Because people tend to be that way, especially in large groups. People will use it to protest the action, and even the existence, of others. And, again, mark my words, they are going to be extremely bull headed about it.
I also know this because I've already seen it happen. I won't drag anyone into this blog, so I'll use myself as an example. For a Town Hall, Tenk asked us to send him a note card with our views and opinions. He posted part of mine in chat for those gathered, as I was not able to attend. Part of what he posted said, "I think something that may help for all citizens, Engineers and Steampunk alike, would be to add the an "Out of Character" role to the groups, and assign everyone to the role. That way, if we have another even, people have the option of putting the tag on if it's a heavy RP night. Of course, some will say, "Why should I have to wear a tag when blah de blah de fo de fo???" To that I say, you can't please everyone."
What followed was the precise eruption of "Why should I have to?!?" that I predicted. Everyone involved in this eruption completely ignored that they would not be forced to do anything even if this was implemented. As far as they were concerned, it all boiled down to, "If I wouldn't want to, NO ONE should have the option!"
To me, it was shameful and disappointing that the very idea of giving someone the choice whether to do something or not would be so appalling to so many. Every time someone said that they liked the idea, three or four people would type, "NO TAGS!", or threatened to move away if it was implemented. It doesn't matter to me that it wasn't put into effect. My groups have always had this tag available. (If you haven't noticed, I'm big on letting people have choices.) It was the fact that the eruption was so violent that others went so far as to say that they weren't going to say anything because they didn't want to get yelled at. It was the first time since the elections that I had doubts about our community, and I'll be honest, those doubts have intensified in the last few months.
More and more we're talking about role play. Specifically, what we don't like to see in role play. We discuss whether or not magic should be allowed, what limits we should put on magic, and even how an individuals character is designed. Every time the discussion starts with the best of intentions. Take Mr. Underby's discussion. You'll never convince me that he's on the anti-magic side of the debate. I would be willing to bet he wanted to discuss the limitations of magic as it applies to good story telling and character development. I could be wrong, but I doubt I'm that far off.
However, soon the discussion started sliding away from that. I wasn't going to weigh in, but eventually added my two cents, pretty much stating that good story telling outweighed what genre a particular plot device fell into. The reason being was, well intentioned as it was, I felt the discussion would start us on the road to, well, this. What's that saying about a road paved with good intentions?
I'm going to shut up for now. Feel free to add your two cents here. However, let me reiterate something. Debate, discuss, and even trash the statements I've made in this blog all you want. I've got a thick skin. However, do not muddy up this blog by bashing each other. If you want to name call and bicker, get a room.
Tags: magic, opinions, roleplay, rp, sometimes-you-can't-go-home...
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Comment by Mr. Tenk on November 9, 2009 at 12:02pm -
Thanks Moses.
There is a growing concern in the city that certain trends among some roleplayers are taking us away from being a steampunk city and making us a fantasy sim in steampunk clothing, and I agree. I think this is a large enough concern to make a covenant change.
I have asked some people why they come here, and get "because my old medieval/goth/fantasy/vampire/fur rp sim was getting boring and/or went adult and/or won't allow kids"
Translation: we are going to come here, put on new clothing and continue to tell the story we had started elsewhere whether it fits here or not. And there's more of them coming.
If they were shopping or touring or here to contribute to the overall build with a new shop or imaginative build, i wouldn't even blink. But they are here for ROLEPLAYING.
It is twisting the city. There are doors trying to open now that will never be closed again if I allow it. It is going to stop.
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Comment by Moses Mureaux on November 9, 2009 at 12:08pm -
Tenk: True, and believe me, I don't blame you. It's a growing concern, and someone has to do something about it. Fortunately that's not me. Unfortunately, my friend, that's you.
Let's hope that in a year I can post a blog that says, "Hey, guess what! I was completely wrong!" That would be nice.
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Comment by Blackberry Harvey on November 9, 2009 at 12:13pm -
I completely agree with you. Most of the issues that would arise could be solved by some simple communication up front, but unfortunately we're not really conditioned to handle potential problems that way.
As for magic, my character was created partly by magic but is not magical, though some of his friends are. I think there's some great storytelling grist in the struggle between the old ways of magic and the new ways of technology, and it's sad to see that the gate is hat being slammed down.
I would be more in favor of a reasoned approach and discussion with the worst offenders, stating the issues and cooperatively redirecting their efforts to better suit NB's style. Most folk seem to want to be here and get along, if we just act like adults and talk things through.
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Comment by Mr. Tenk on November 9, 2009 at 12:13pm
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I hope you are not interpretting this as meaning that you HAVE to pay attention to rp. Lord knows I have tried to continue ignoring some of the rp here.. and what it has come to is try as I might, it won't let me ignore it because it is changing the way the place feels. THAT is what I mean by not 100% ignorable. I'm not telling you to get in line with Jane's story, just acknowledge the basic premise. If you're a continutiy freak, more power to you.
Gunplay, for example, is not 100% ignorable, even if you don't get hit. I think we all agreed on that much earlier.
The concerns over fantasy elements in the story are boiling over... when it is being done in such a way where you can't ignore it anymore, something is breaking.
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Comment by Mr. Tenk on November 9, 2009 at 12:26pm
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wouldn't it be swell if i was wrong?
meanwhile...
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Comment by Moses Mureaux on November 9, 2009 at 12:29pm
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Blackberry: The juxtaposition technology vs. magic is quite intriguing to me. It's a major element in my personal RP. It's a bit subtle, but will be more evident as time goes on. I closely guard this RP, and only reveal major plot elements to people I trust with the information. There are things that could raise eyebrows in the over all story. Some of the characters are highly over powered on purpose because it's necessary to the issues I want to explore. It's tough, but so far I've enjoyed the process of developing it organically and seeing where it takes me.
Tenk: Oh no, I don't think I have to pay attention. It's that now I'm required to consider that other might choose to pay attention, and that as the covenant is now written, I'll be required to let that affect my RP. Like I said, I know that's not what you intended. But, that's how it'll read.
Also, as I pointed out in Mr. Underby's discussion, we shouldn't just limit the discussion to magical and fantasy elements. I've see Mad Science go over the edge a lot. *cough-TIME-LORDS-cough-hack-wheeze* Pardon me. Allergies.
And let's not forget that I allowed an RP on my property only to walk into a snuff film. Even with that experience under my belt, I have to raise an eye brow at the doors the new additions to the covenant are opening. Misinterpretation is almost a given.
Still, I commend you for dealing with this directly. It would have been easy to stick your head in the sand. Thank you for caring enough about our virtual home not to do that. That means a lot to me.
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Comment by Victor on November 9, 2009 at 12:33pm -
I have asked some people why they come here, and get "because my old medieval/goth/fantasy/vampire/fur rp sim was getting boring and/or went adult and/or won't allow kids"
Translation: we are going to come here, put on new clothing and continue to tell the story we had started elsewhere whether it fits here or not. And there's more of them coming.
...and that is EXACTLY why i'm fully in support of this new additional rule to the covenant.
I've been to a lot of these fantasy/vampire roleplay sims, most of them are nothing more than godmoders "ohhhhh you can't kill me...im the son of a 1st generation dragon clan leader, im IMMORTAL!"
Yeah...immortal till i shot his big dragon butt with a pair of Colt 45's.
Then you have the bloodsuckers. Now dont get me wrong, thew mornington character in SL is part vamp part lycan, but the full bloodsuckers, the old generation vampires...if there was EVER a god moding race...its the vampire clans. They will, come hell or high water, make sure you never get near them with a wooden steak, and if ya do manage to even scratch them what do they do? They run to the sim owner and start whining like little babies...thats why i left the vamp rp scene, its full of idiot's.
The new ruling will not scare away learned RP'ers, the kind of RP'ers that know how to RP.
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Comment by Mara Razor on November 9, 2009 at 12:44pm -
Now, I must admit that I was unaware of many changes to the latest release of the SL viewer. Apparently now there is no "mute" option. You simply must read someone else's text.
I assure you that the mute button works fine. I just wish we had one for the Ning.
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Comment by Victor on November 9, 2009 at 12:53pm
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Also, as I pointed out in Mr. Underby's discussion, we shouldn't just limit the discussion to magical and fantasy elements. I've see Mad Science go over the edge a lot. *cough-TIME-LORDS-cough-hack-wheeze* Pardon me. Allergies.
...and you were the one who said keep it civil? Name the timelords who are living in New Babbage as residents, theres only two, me...and the other happens to be one of the founders of the city.
The well known timelords point blank refuse to roleplay in New Babbage or most of the steamlands for that matter.
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Comment by Sheryl Skytower on November 9, 2009 at 12:56pm -
"Yeah...immortal till i shot his big dragon butt with a pair of Colt 45's."
*snorgles*
I'll come back with more thoughts maybe later, but...
*snorgles*
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Spring: Oiling Festival
Summer: Great Babbage Exposition
Fall: Explorers & Scientists Recognition
Winter: Winter Holidays
Monthly Holidays
Jan: Founder's Day (8th)
Feb: Steampunk Photography Month
Mar: St. Patrick's Day (17th)
Literary Day (24th)
Apr: Charles Darwin Day (19th)
May: May Day (1st)
Robber Baron Day (27th)
June: Boilerplate/Clockwork Day (25th)
July: Submersible Day (3rd)
Nikola Tesla Day (10th)
Airship Day (23rd - 31st)
Aug: H.G. Wells Day (13th)
Sept: Engineer's Day (15th)
Orphan's Day (19th)
Oct: Babbage Day (18th)
Mythos Day (31st)
Nov: Guy Fawkes Day (5th)
Dec: Programmer's Day (10th)
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